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Re:carbs was:- [IPk] How Stupid can you get???

I would agree Di, I find it's the type of cho I have to bolus for that makes 
a difference too. An apple would barely need any insulin(depending on my bg 
beforehand) but a glass of pure orange juice would definately need more 
depending obviously on the quantity but in equivalent grams.A bit gycaemid 
index I guess!
I am now slowly beginning to lose weight now as I am really restricting my 
carb intake. My insulin requirements have reduced by about 40% despite 
having a week off work with an ear infection and a painful shoulder 
joint.Personally I think Ian Botham hit the nail on the head with his 
comments about dietary advice for people with Diabetes nowadays especially 
for someone like me who was brought up on a cho restricted  diet and then 
ate too much cho! My mothers elderly friend has just been diagnosed type 2 
and they were having an disagreement about broad beans, apparently we were 
not allowed them when we were young because of their large cho content and 
my mother felt that it was not right for her friend tgo be eating them!! Oh 
how I was deprived!! Carmel

>From: Diana Maynard <email @ redacted>
>Reply-To: email @ redacted
>To: email @ redacted
>Subject: Re: [IPk] How Stupid can you get???
>Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2002 11:16:36 +0100
>Hi Pat
>On Sunday 30 June 2002 16:17, you wrote:
> > I perfer to use 'low carb' to mean 'a low proportion of calories from
> > carboydrate' rather than 'low in absolute cho'.  After all, 10g CHO
> > taken in the form of tomatoes (a high carb food) is 10g cho, just as 10g
> > cho taking in the form of cheesy garlic bread is 10g cho - it's better
> > to describe tomatoes as being 'water rich'.
>Ah, that is where the ambiguity arises. I think a lot of people (myself
>included) would classify low carb as meaning "having a low carbohydrate
>value" rather than "having a low proportion of carbs to fat and protein".
>I personally prefer to think of it that way, because I care more about the
>overall carb value of what I'm eating to the carb vs protein vs fat
>proportions. I then take into account separately how much fat and protein a
>food has. I don't care whether my 10g carb comes from tomatoes, cheesy 
>bread or pure sugar, I will still bolus 0.8 units for it (the amount of fat
>in the amount of cheesy garlic bread that has 10g carb in - ie quite a 
>piece - is not enough for me to worry about in terms of my insulin, though 
>it were 50g tomatoes vs 50g garlic bread I would consider it separately).
>Defining the level of carb which is considered low is of course another
>minefield - what's low to me  might be high for someone else.
>Personally I try to eat relatively low amounts of total carb - around 
>per meal. Atkins or Bernstein wouldn't consider that low carb, but for most
>people it would be! Whether that 30-40g is proprtionally low in carb 
>with fat and protein depends in principle on how hungry I am and how 
>I am being!
>In my opinion the only way to make it clear for everyone is to make it
>explicit what we mean when we talk about low carb etc. Introducing terms 
>"rich" and "poor" as well as "low" and "high" just make it more confusing -
>to me at least.
> > Perhaps we can use the terms 'rich' and 'poor' to indicate absolute
> > levels in foods (a measurement of very little value - what matters is
> > the calculated amount - be it 10g eaten in a LOT of tomatoes or in a
> > small piece of cheesy garlic bread) and the relative source of calories
> > in the food.
> >
> > For example, take one meal that has 100g weight, and 50g CHO, and take
> > another which has 200g weight and 50g CHO - you'ld say that the second
> > one contained food that was 'low' in carbs - I wouldn't - I'd point out
> > that they were the same meal, but the second one has 100g glass water
> > with it!  These two meals, because they have the same g CHO, and the
> > same proportion of calories from CHO are going to have exactly the same
> > effect on most people's blood glucose levels - the water doesn't matter
> > at all.
> >
> > Most people here are not trying to eat 'low' absolute amounts of CHO. We
> > don't have to choose between tomatoes and treacle toffee on the grounds
> > that one has more or less CHO than the other.  We can even eat both!  We
> > simply inject for what we eat. (Those of us who are trying to eat low
> > calorie have a different choice to make, of course).  Some people are
> > trying to limit the total CHO in a meal, but even for them, it doesn't
> > matter whether they eat a steak and green salad and toffee (total 30g
> > CHO) or the same cho and calories as steak and a mixed salad with an
> > incredibly large amount of tomatoes.
> >
> > That's why I use 'low' to mean 'low proportion of calories from', and
> > think that we should stop using 'low' to mean 'a small number of grammes
> > carbohydrate in a normal portion'.
> >
> > Best wishes to all,
> >
> > Pat
> > dm 30+, 508 1+, really likes tomatoes!
> >
> > In message <001c01c22021$0e8fa620$email @ redacted>, Diana Maynard
> > <email @ redacted> writes
> >
> > >Hi Pat
> > >
> > >> A food which is low in carbohydrate is high in fat and protein.
> > >
> > >I have to disagree here - this isn't necessarily true at all! Though 
> > >often the case. For example, lots of salad vegetables are low in fat,
> > >protein and carbs. And there are lots of low carb low fat high protein
> > > foods (lean meat, tofu, very low fat cheese, fromage frais, etc. etc.)
> > >You knew that, I'm sure, and I know what you meant - that often when 
> > > eat low carb meals they contain a lot of protein and/or fat - but I
> > > thought I'd better point it out in case anyone was confused by this.
> > >I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post though!
> > >Di
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