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Re: [IPk] How Stupid can you get???

Hi Pat

On Sunday 30 June 2002 16:17, you wrote:
> I perfer to use 'low carb' to mean 'a low proportion of calories from
> carboydrate' rather than 'low in absolute cho'.  After all, 10g CHO
> taken in the form of tomatoes (a high carb food) is 10g cho, just as 10g
> cho taking in the form of cheesy garlic bread is 10g cho - it's better
> to describe tomatoes as being 'water rich'.

Ah, that is where the ambiguity arises. I think a lot of people (myself 
included) would classify low carb as meaning "having a low carbohydrate 
value" rather than "having a low proportion of carbs to fat and protein".
I personally prefer to think of it that way, because I care more about the 
overall carb value of what I'm eating to the carb vs protein vs fat 
proportions. I then take into account separately how much fat and protein a 
food has. I don't care whether my 10g carb comes from tomatoes, cheesy garlic 
bread or pure sugar, I will still bolus 0.8 units for it (the amount of fat 
in the amount of cheesy garlic bread that has 10g carb in - ie quite a small 
piece - is not enough for me to worry about in terms of my insulin, though if 
it were 50g tomatoes vs 50g garlic bread I would consider it separately).

Defining the level of carb which is considered low is of course another 
minefield - what's low to me  might be high for someone else. 
Personally I try to eat relatively low amounts of total carb - around 30-40g 
per meal. Atkins or Bernstein wouldn't consider that low carb, but for most 
people it would be! Whether that 30-40g is proprtionally low in carb compared 
with fat and protein depends in principle on how hungry I am and how healthy 
I am being!

In my opinion the only way to make it clear for everyone is to make it 
explicit what we mean when we talk about low carb etc. Introducing terms like 
"rich" and "poor" as well as "low" and "high" just make it more confusing - 
to me at least.

> Perhaps we can use the terms 'rich' and 'poor' to indicate absolute
> levels in foods (a measurement of very little value - what matters is
> the calculated amount - be it 10g eaten in a LOT of tomatoes or in a
> small piece of cheesy garlic bread) and the relative source of calories
> in the food.
> For example, take one meal that has 100g weight, and 50g CHO, and take
> another which has 200g weight and 50g CHO - you'ld say that the second
> one contained food that was 'low' in carbs - I wouldn't - I'd point out
> that they were the same meal, but the second one has 100g glass water
> with it!  These two meals, because they have the same g CHO, and the
> same proportion of calories from CHO are going to have exactly the same
> effect on most people's blood glucose levels - the water doesn't matter
> at all.
> Most people here are not trying to eat 'low' absolute amounts of CHO. We
> don't have to choose between tomatoes and treacle toffee on the grounds
> that one has more or less CHO than the other.  We can even eat both!  We
> simply inject for what we eat. (Those of us who are trying to eat low
> calorie have a different choice to make, of course).  Some people are
> trying to limit the total CHO in a meal, but even for them, it doesn't
> matter whether they eat a steak and green salad and toffee (total 30g
> CHO) or the same cho and calories as steak and a mixed salad with an
> incredibly large amount of tomatoes.
> That's why I use 'low' to mean 'low proportion of calories from', and
> think that we should stop using 'low' to mean 'a small number of grammes
> carbohydrate in a normal portion'.
> Best wishes to all,
> Pat
> dm 30+, 508 1+, really likes tomatoes!
> In message <001c01c22021$0e8fa620$email @ redacted>, Diana Maynard
> <email @ redacted> writes
> >Hi Pat
> >
> >> A food which is low in carbohydrate is high in fat and protein.
> >
> >I have to disagree here - this isn't necessarily true at all! Though it's
> >often the case. For example, lots of salad vegetables are low in fat,
> >protein and carbs. And there are lots of low carb low fat high protein
> > foods (lean meat, tofu, very low fat cheese, fromage frais, etc. etc.)
> >You knew that, I'm sure, and I know what you meant - that often when you
> > eat low carb meals they contain a lot of protein and/or fat - but I
> > thought I'd better point it out in case anyone was confused by this.
> >I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post though!
> >Di
> >----------------------------------------------------------
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