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Re: [IPr] Re: My thoughts, and coping

><email @ redacted> wrote:
> > We differ on this...and that's fine.  I believe that the Bible is
> > true in every sense.  It is the word of God the way he intended and
> > designed.
>Are you saying that you believe God dictated the Bible and the various
>authors were God's scribes?  Then how do you explain the internal
>inconsistancies?  For example the first two chapters of Genesis have two
>stories of Creation with different sequences of events.   How do you explain
>one place where Jesus makes the claim to be Messiah (which many interpret to
>mean he understood that he was the Second Person Incarnate), and yet his
>prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane in which he prayed in a way that makes it
>clear he did not know the final outcome of his suffering?

The Bible was God inspired.  No other book can make that claim.  The 
Bible is the only book that has the teachings of Jesus and the new 
covenant (New Testament) for Christians.  It is the interpretation of 
scripture by mankind which creates the inconsistencies.

My King James version doesn't say Jesus prayed in a way that makes it 
clear he didn't know the final outcome but rather:

Matthew 26: 39 - And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, 
and prayed, saying, "O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup 
pass from me:  nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

I feel Jesus' life on earth was our ultimate example of how to 
emulate our lives.  In a flesh form, he knew what terribleness 
awaited him and that he would suffer greatly, yet held steadfast 
through prayer.  A great lesson for us in the many great lessons he 
left for us.

> > >I have to say that I think the Bible (like anything else that's not
> > >God) can be
> > >made into an idol.
>I've also seen the Bible used as a bludgeon too many times.

If anyone is USING the Bible as a "bludgeon," then they are not true 

> > We totally disagree on this one.  I don't feel the Bible could ever
> > be referred to as an idol.
>Really?  You have never seen anyone come to worship the Bible instead of the
>God it tells about?

I talking about Christians using the Bible as God intended.  We were 
meant to read and study it.  How else would we know what God's word 
is for us??  Someone who isn't a Christian could be using it for the 
wrong reasons and not what God intended.  I'm talking about 
Christians using it for their only source of inspiration, which is 
what I FEEL God intended.  He didn't inspire any other works.  I 
think there's a reason for that.

> > God was vehemently against worshipping
> > idols.  He wouldn't give us his Word through one.
>God does not make idols.  *WE* make idols that replace God in our hearts.
>The Bible is a book - a very special one, but a book nonetheless, written by
>human beings inspired by God.

Exactly my point.  God would not have inspired a book intended for 
Christians if it meant we would turn it into an idol.  If the Bible 
is used the way God intended, it could NEVER be considered an idol.

> > I don't know what you mean about holding the "right" doctrines.
>Well, take a look at Jesus' teachings to some of the Pharisees, particularly
>about working on the Sabbath.  Jesus was very clear that the spirit of the
>Law - honoring God and Creation - was more important than a mindless
>adherence to rules imposed by religious leaders.  Jesus denounced the
>"right" doctrine of the Pharisees.

Absolutely.  Jesus denounced the laws of man, not the laws of God. 
He did that time and time again.  More great lessons for mankind. 
Pharisees were following their own laws thinking they were pleasing 
God.  That's why the Bible is so important for us to know what God's 
laws are and what is expected of us to follow Him and not the world.

> > Anyone can profess they are a Christian.  I am not judging anyone's
> > Christianity.
>But that's exactly why I joined this topic.  Gil impugned the faith of the
>Jesus Seminar participants even though he has never tried to understand
>their work, and you strongly agreed with him.  If you are willing to allow
>each person to experience God through Christ in her or his way then we have
>no argument.

The Jesus Seminar's do not sound like they are based on Christianity 
through God's word, the Bible.  By all means, these seminars should 
be allowed and anyone has the right to attend them.  I just don't 
feel they are Christian-based.

> > I just feel accepting Jesus as the son of God and living by
> > His example and commandments is what makes you a Christian and the
> > only way to know that is by reading the Bible.
>Here we differ.  God still communicates with us through each other and
>directly.  If this is not true then why were we commanded to pray?

Of course God communicates with us through prayer.  BUT IF A 
WAY TO DO THAT.  My children believe in God, accept Jesus as their 
Savior.  They haven't yet begun to read the Bible.  They've learned 
about God through my husband and me, Sunday school, church, etc.  I 
was talking about an intimate, one-on-one knowledge of God.

> > We all have very passionate opinions and views...which is a good
> > thing.  I don't think any of us are going to change our minds.
>I'm always willing and prepared to change my mind when I learn something

The Bible may not be new, but it is all I need!  If someone wants to 
debate a scripture taken from the Bible and its meaning, I'm always 
open as well to their perspective.  I'm just not open to 
enlightenment from anything that falls outside the scripture of the 

This is the last post from me on this thread.  I think everyone knows 
where I stand.  I don't know if it is my fault by not being clear on 
my posts or your interpretation of them, but your reply posts change 
the meaning and content of what I'm trying to express.  Because of 
that, this debate could go on and on.  I simply don't have time to 
continue with it.


>Jim Handsfield
>email @ redacted
>The opinions expressed are mine and do not necessarily represent those of my
>wife who runs our house and makes more important decisions than I do.
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