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Re: [IP] Medicare, pumps and costs



Forget ethics.  They (pumps manufacturers, subcontractors, pharmaceutical
companies) know that our lives depend of the pump and insulin.  If you want
to live, you will pay.  They may sugar-coat this truth; but that's reality.
 It's not just the pump that is so expensive, but other life sustaining
drugs and devices.  Call me cynical; but there it is.

Richard - they recovered their original R & D, marketing and what not years
ago.  The "new" pumps are not really new.  They are just
tweeked a bit.

Liliana


On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:33 AM, SomeoneSomewhere <email @ redacted> wrote:

> Don't go and get all rational on me! No seriously, I don't buy it. The
> initial costs have been offset by corporate welfare, healthcare grants, etc
> and were by far paid for by the earlier models in research and development
> dollars.
>
> Take minimed for example. Each "model" has had only minor upgrades to it's
> design, technologically speaking. In fact, many of those upgrades could
> have been made to software alone. In most cases, we are talking logarithm
> not electronic changes except for the 502 to 506 according to Medtronics
> own website. It doesn't say but I would venture to guess the 511 also came
> with some electronic changes. It hasn't hardly cost the company anything
> for each subsequent model. I bet if you lay those printed circuit board
> side by side they are practically identical. They only major difference (in
> a manufacturing sense) is the outside case. What it costs in retooling a
> blow mold for thermoplastics is less than a tenth of percent of total
> budget. I know people in plastics and blow molds are pretty cheap. The
> biggest expense in retooling for a new model would be for 3D design and
> testing for reliability etc of new infusion sets. But then again the
> company is making back their money in groves by selling new sets to people
> at again a huge mark up every month.
>
> Do I expect that the mark up should be the same as that for Apple
> products. No. You are right there should be a much much higher standard of
> reliability etc. The question is how much profit should people be making
> off of other people's health problems? My answer, biomedical engineer's
> should make a nice standard of living, more so than your average guy. But
> not some know-nothing/do-little CEO who makes millions in bonus's a year.
> Just take a look at what current Medtronic's CEO, Omar Ishrak, made in
> 2012.
> http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2012/06/28/
> ceo-pay-medtronic-ishrak-hawkins.html
> Take a look at what they paid in severance to the previous CEO and what
> the other leaders in the company made. Their stockholder's aren't making
> out too bad either.
> http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=MDT+Interactive#
> symbol=mdt;range=5y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=
> area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;
> (Dang, I should've bought their stock! Maybe I could afford a pump then.)
>
> Now ask yourself, is that ethical when your a medical device company and
> people are in desperate health without insurance cant afford your product?
> Does it justify the price or the profit of the company when insurance pays
> for it? If it does, does that mean people who can afford insurance, their
> live's are more valuable than others?
>
> Not asking for an argument, just hoping you and others will think about
> the ethics of it all. Maybe you will agree with me. ;) If not, that's ok
> too. Above all, I really hope that people start to demand that health care
> companies can no longer charge these kinds of fees for things, whatever
> their views are.
>
> Louree
>
>
> On 12/11/2013 9:33 PM, Richard Price wrote:
>
>>   True, pumps probably cost much less, like if they are made in China for
>>
> > example. However there is a huge basic cost that must be rectified in
> order
> to
>
>> make pumps initially available. That cost is what it costs to design and
>> engineer them to meet acceptable standards. Every pump sold includes a
>>
> > Portion of the initial cost which is extra high because of the higher
> standards
>
>> that must be met for medical use.
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 11, 2013, at 7:10 PM, SomeoneSomewhere <email @ redacted> wrote:
>>
>>  > > I didn't want to hijack the other thread so I changed the title
> some. I
> hope
>
>> that is ok.
>>
> > > This may offend some. It is not my intention to do so. I just need to
> vent
>
>> and rant. Please do not take any of this personally. It is not aimed at
>> any
>>
> > single person that's part of why I changed the subject. But I wanted
> people
> to
>
>> know what made me think of this.. not that it just came out of thin air.
>>
> > > I was just telling my neighbor this this other day... you know it
> probably
>
>> costs them less than $50 to make insulin pumps in China. To minimize the
>> argument against how much it costs to make each unit, let's say it costs
>> them
>> $500. How is it that they can mark them up to $5000 or $10,000 and sell
>> them?
>> Sadly, they resell these things and make a profit over again. Even Apple,
>>
> > probably the worst offender of consumer markups, doesn't get that much!
> How
> is
> > it that Medicare, or any insurance pays them? Don't get me wrong, I am
> glad
> that
>
>> insurance does pay for them, we need them. It begs the question though,
>> where
>>
> > are consumer groups, consumer protection agencies or even the government
> saying
>
>> this is price gouging and you can not get away with it?
>>
>>> Just having a moment, ignore me if you need to. :)
>>>
>>> Louree
>>> .
>>> Follow us at https://www.twitter.com/insulinpumpers
>>> Make a long URL short at http://type1.org
>>>
>> .
>> Follow us at https://www.twitter.com/insulinpumpers
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>>
> .
> Follow us at https://www.twitter.com/insulinpumpers
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.
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