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[IP] Re: Insulin/carb ratios and pizza effect


I get the distinct impression that you are out to destroy my 
credibility, scientifically speaking.  I'm not sure why.

First of all, I'm not suggesting that pizza releases glucagon.  
Actually, there are amino acids...particularly arginine...which causes 
the body to stimulate glucagon production.  This, in turn, leads to a 
release of glycogen into the system as a source of sugar.  This process 
takes some time, and is why there is a delay.  

Arginine is an amino acid that results from the breakdown of certain 
proteins.  I'm still investigating the exact sources of this, though, 
pizza appears to fit the bill.  (JUst as one small link that talks 
about this is http://www.teaching-
ion.htm  THere are plenty of others, and I'm still working through them 
all...but what I'm talking about is NOT made up. In fact, it was a 
message in the insulin-pumpers FAQ that led me down the path to 
investigate this as a possibility.  Prior to then, I knew none of 
the "pat" reasons applied from my own experimentation.

And, frankly, I'm not certain of the complete answer as of yet.  For 
example, why is pasta and pizza both examples always given of "the 
pizza effect"...that is, delayed rises in blood glucose levels?  What 
is common between the two that ISN'T common among other foods with 
similar fat/protein/carb content.  I don't yet know the answer.  I've 
wondered about Tomato sauce...if something in that can be playing a 
role, since many pasta dishes use tomato sauce much like pizza.

I don't everything about this subject yet...but neither do you, by your 
own admittance. The "pizza effect" is documented heavily, with few 
explanations other than the supposed delay that can be causes by the 
fat and protein content.  However, that theory doesn't sync with other 
evidence.  Thus far, the "glucagon effect", as I've been calling it, is 
the most acceptable explanation I've seen to date, and gives me the 
information I need to understand how pizza affects my own body.  (That 
being my afforementioned need for an additional 2 units wave bolus no 
matter how much pizza I eat.)

A scientist does NOT say it isn't true until proven that it is...a 
scientist says that it IS possible until proven false or evidence is 
given to the contrary.  I'm looking for evidence to the contrary...but 
have yet to find it.  All evidence, thus far, as supported the glucagon 
effect as the cause.

So, now I still search to find out if arginine is the ONLY factor...or 
if there is a combination of factors...perhaps that arginine itself 
does not cause this, but arginine in combination with another things 
does.  For example, it is known that lysine and arginine play an 
interactive role in certain things (though, unrelated to glycogen 

Regardless, dairy products ARE a known protein that breaks down into 
arginine, which is KNOWN to cause glucagon production.  Pizza contains 
high amounts of dairy in the cheese.

Where is the fiction?  Tell me, please.  I have not made up anything.


>Shawna, pizza may be hard to figure, but  what Ryan has said is 
>entirely made up.  A nice work of fiction.   There is no scientific 
>basis for pizza releasing glucagon slowly over hours.
>I don't know of 
>any specific evidence that would tie this to pizza or pasta, but 
>there is no doubt that insulin sensitivity can vary over hours, days, 
>or weeks.   Many things can change it, and as the most common 
>example, we all know that exercise increases insulin sensitivity, 
>often dramatically.
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