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[IP] more old news LONG
> if fat were simply delaying the carbs from entering the bloodstream,
> then why did I need EXTRA insulin, not just delayed insulin?
Did you NOT in your test with the personal size pizza, that I was responding
to, SAY in english, that you did NOT need the extra 3 units when you spread
the bolus out? I distinctly remember you writing that you gave PART of the
bolus, and then spread the balance out over time, and did NOT need the
extra...you said THIS was taking care of the glucagon rise...why are you now
> as others have reported, the longer you wait to correct for it, the
> more it takes.
That is an incorrect assumption. It is a FACT that if you try to slam your
blood sugar down by giving one bolus, you WILL engage the counter regulatory
hormones. You WILL, in effect, CREATE the glucagon effect!! You need the
same amount of insulin for 30 carbs of pizza or 30 carbs of orange juice or
30 carbs of cap'n crunch or 30 carbs of Ben and Jerry's....The ONLY variable
is the TIMING of that insulin. If you took all 10 units at the TOP of your
pizza, then you are SLAMMING your blood sugar down BEFORE the carbs even hit
your blood stream due to the FAT content!! Your body will fight this drop in
blood sugar by dumping in counter regulatory hormones, like adrenaline,
cortisol, growth hormone, glycagen (or is it glucagon..i get them
confused...wayne...help!!) etc...all of these are SUGARS...The brain
releases these when it thinks you are about to be eaten by a sabre tooth
tiger (so you can have the energy to RUN FAST DAMMIT), or going into
starvation - which it "assumes" when your blood sugar drops more than 40-50
points in an hour.
Think about it...If "normal" is 90-120, what do you think the brain is going
to do with a drop of 50 points, as would happen when you take 10 units before
eating a fat laden pizza. It will FREAK OUT and send a frantic message to
the liver - "ahhhoooogah ahhhooogahh...all hands on deck....we are dropping
fast, we must be starving! Dump glycagen, dump adrenalin, dump dump dump!!!"
Then, us, the flailing diabetic, not seeing our bg go down fast enough, puts
in MORE insulin - "ahhhoooogah ahhhooogahh..." and so on and so on til you
have used 40 units of insulin to bring your blood sugar down 300 points, or
to cover your 8" pizza.
Your brain does this FREAK OUT thing not because of what you ATE...but
because of the TIMING of your insulin. As you showed in your experiement with
the personal pizza, it is ALL in the timing; you can PREVENT the brain from
freaking out and sending in the glucagon. The liver does not send it in on
It is a FALLACY that a body needs "more" insulin to bring down a high blood
sugar OR to compensate for high fat food! I am sure 30 of you will write in
with your own true life experiences of needing 200 units to bring down a bg
of 450, or an EXTRA 15 units for the pint of ben and jerrys you ate last
night....but if you DO NOT have a FIT when you have a high blood sugar or
when you eat a fat- or cornstarch-laden food, and try to FORCE your blood
sugar down to 125 in an hour, then your body will NOT react by dumping in
more sugar-raising counter regulatory hormones.
So many people bolus, then test in 1/2 an hour and see they have "only" come
down 20 points, or "only" 100 points in an hour. Well, the insulin must NOT
be working, so they bolus more insulin not remembering that the peak of the
first bolus has not even hit yet.....Sure it takes a LONG time, but taking 6
or 7 units over several HOURS to bring down a blood sugar of 450 is
preferable to the 10, 15, 20 or more units one might have used if one had
tried to slam it down in 2 hours. We can not circumvent our genetic
predisposition for our brain to do this, unless we have our livers removed,
and that is a whole other ball of earwax. To try and beat the highs by
over-bolusing perpetuates the hormonal rollercoaster, AND the "myth" that
high blood sugars REQUIRE more insulin.
> Some of the foods that have the delayed rise aren't even high in fat.
I immediately think of chinese food, which while not always high in fat,
usually is extremely high in cornstarch, arrowroot or other sauce thickeners.
These almost act LIKE fat in delaying the absorption of carbs.....what do
you think those Night Bite things are made of and why they are so popular
with people on NPH?
> THe pizza normally required 10 units plus 3extra extended
> to counter the "glucagon effect". This time, I gave 5 units
> immediately plus 5 more extended over 3 hours, for a total of 10
> unitsinstead of 13 units.
Again....You more accurately bolused, in terms of TIME, and met the sugar
head on....This does NOT prove a glucagon effect. You effectively subverted
your brain from NEEDING to dump it in! YOU controlled it, not your liver.
> glucagon is, thus far, the only logical explanation that has scientific
> support. Arginine is KNOWN to induce glucagon production...cheese
> and pepperoni would cause a significant increase in the amount
> of arginine that enters the bloodstream. This...trigger release of glucagon
OK, Here is an experiment I would like to conduct.....
Everyone eat a standard 15 carb slice of bread with 15 carbs of fat FREE
jelly on it (about a tablespoon i think)
THEN everyone eat a standard slice of bread with some arginine and fat loaded
cheese on it. (have enough cheese to make 15 grams of carb)
See if the effects of taking the 2 units of insulin (for me 15 grams = 1 unit
- YMMV) at the top for BOTH sandwiches are the same. I am willing to bet that
to achieve a good blood sugar 2-3 hours later, you can NOT take the cheese
bread bolus all at once...due to the FAT slowing down the absoption of the
carbs. Take it all at once, and you will FORCE your body to dump in counter
regulatory hormones to compensate for the drop in blood sugar.
good luck on your quest for the truth....pass the ben and jerry;s please....
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