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[IP] Thank you and separate cannula ends request



Here is a copy of a letter I wrote to Mr. Mann, the Founder of Minimed
to pass on our request for marketing the cannulas separately.  I hope
some of you will also take the time to write and influence their
decision.  I took the liberty of passing along the dialogue from the
site and I hope that's alright with everyone.  Thanks for your support
on this issue.  Marilyn
PS:  I didn't have an email address for MM so I just entered this on
their web site feedback form.

Dear Mr. Mann:

I am writing as an appreciative diabetic who has been using the MiniMed
507C Insulin Pump for the past six months.  My blood sugars have
improved dramatically along with my sense of well being.  Thank you for
having the vision to create this life enhancing device for so many of us
who have struggled to achieve better control and health in our lives.
The support I have received from you clinical team by phone has been
invaluable to me.  I live in an isolated village of less than a thousand
people and it is so reassuring to know that their competent assistance
is just a phone call away (24 hours a day).  It is an excellent service.

I would like to make a request of your company to provide sofset cannula
ends separately.  I understand that the Sils do come in a 5:10 ratio but
even this is insufficient for many of us consumers.  I am attaching a
letter I sent to the Pumpersí Web Site along with the ensuing dialogue
from many other pump users.  We all agree that we would like to see
MiniMed market the cannula ends separately.

In my case, I do a vigorous martial art while wearing my pump.  The pump
survives without problem.  However the tape at my site often comes off
due to sweating and I need to replace the site.  It would be so
beneficial to be able to just replace the cannula end.  This is exactly
what I do but I have to throw away the tubing thatís included in  the
package as I donít need to use it.  This occurs sometimes 2-3
times/week. Please, please, please consider providing us with the option
of purchasing replacement cannulas separately.  It would make life so
much easier to many of us who need this alternative for a myriad of
reasons.

Please write to me in response to my concerns.  It would also be
beneficial to post your response on the Pumpersí Web site.  Thank you
for your dedicated leadership in this wonderful new way to live with
diabetes.

Sincerely,

Marilyn Wolovick
Attach.
PS: My email address is email @ redacted or you can reach me
by regular mail at Box 1291 Kaslo, BC  Canada  V0G 1M0.  Thank you..
A record of the discussion from the web site follows:
To: email @ redacted, "email @ redacted"
<email @ redacted>
     Subject: [IP] cost of supplies
     From: Marilyn Wolovick <email @ redacted>
     Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 16:59:03 -0800
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



Hi Michael and Friends,  I just did a search of the archives re:  the
high cost of supplies and found reference to the different form of
packaging available with 5 sets to 10 cannula parts.  I thought this
might be a good option for me because my tapes often come unstuck due to

a vigorous workout I do 4 times a week.  (Lots of sweating and movement
causes the glue to weaken and sometimes the set just comes out
(sigh).)But when I checked out the prices, they told me it was $170 for
the 12 sofsets (with only 1 cannula end each) vs. $140 for 5 sofsets
with 10 cannula ends.  The math just doesn't work out for me.
I am amazed at  how expensive the supplies are.  They say they're
expensive to manufacture.  But I suspect its cuz there is no competition

and they can charge us what they like.  I'd like to be able to buy the
cannula ends by themselves for the times when the site comes loose.  But

they don't sell them separately.  Wish they would.  Any advice?  Thx.
Marilyn

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Re: [[IP] cost of supplies]]



     To: email @ redacted
     Subject: Re: [[IP] cost of supplies]]
     From: Ted Quick <email @ redacted>
     Date: 27 Mar 00 07:44:34 EST
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



Marilyn Wolovick <email @ redacted> wrote:
> From:  email @ redacted
> Hi Michael and Friends,  I just did a search of the archives re:  the
> high cost of supplies and found reference to the different form of
> packaging available with 5 sets to 10 cannula parts.  I thought this
> might be a good option for me because my tapes often come unstuck due
to
>
> a vigorous workout I do 4 times a week.  (Lots of sweating and
movement
> causes the glue to weaken and sometimes the set just comes out
> (sigh).)

Sounds like you should look at Silhouettes (aka Tenders or Comforts).
They
seem to stick a whole lot better because the design has a large tape pad

attached to the canula base which holds very well for most people, not
even
needing overtaping. They also have other advantages.

But when I checked out the prices, they told me it was $170 for
> the 12 sofsets (with only 1 cannula end each) vs. $140 for 5 sofsets
> with 10 cannula ends.

This IS Sofsets. made by MiniMed? Last i knew they didn't sell them this

way, only Comforts/Tenders/Silhouettes did. Of course I haven't looked
at
SofSets for some time, since the Comforts work so much better, and I've
used
them for about 5 years now.

The math just doesn't work out for me.
> I am amazed at  how expensive the supplies are.  They say they're
> expensive to manufacture.  But I suspect its cuz there is no
competition

I would say you're paying entirely too much for them anyway. My
Comforts cost $123 for a 5/10 Combo pack, and they are usually priced
close to
Sofsets. This isn't from the cheapest source either, MiniMed sells them
(as
Silhouettes) for less than that, though I've read some complaints about
MiniMed's order handling, so I buy mine from an outside supplier. You
might
want to check prices with ExpressMed (colummbus OH)
at 1-800-678-5733, for example.

> and they can charge us what they like.  I'd like to be able to buy the

> cannula ends by themselves for the times when the site comes loose.
But
> they don't sell them separately.  Wish they would.  Any advice?  Thx.

Ted Quick
email @ redacted


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[IP] cost of supplies]



     To: "email @ redacted" <email @ redacted>,
email @ redacted
     Subject: [IP] cost of supplies]
     From: Marilyn Wolovick <email @ redacted>
     Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 20:26:27 -0800
     Reply-To: email @ redacted












RE: [IP] cost of supplies



     To: "'email @ redacted'" <email @ redacted>
     Subject: RE: [IP] cost of supplies
     From: Sherry Webb Nolan <email @ redacted>
     Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 11:27:15 -0500
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



Marilyn,
I think the problem lies in the different supplies.  I wasn't aware the
Minimed sold sofsets in boxes other then 12 complete sets.

The sils come in 5/10 and 10/10 boxes and are priced differently then
the
sofsets.  The sils tend to be a little more expensive.  I think this is
because Minimed outsources the sils but makes the sofsets in house.

Just a thought,
Sherry
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Re: [IP] Buying cannulas separately



     To: email @ redacted
     Subject: Re: [IP] Buying cannulas separately
     From: email @ redacted
     Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 20:14:56 EST
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



I would also like to be able to buy boxes of just the sils/tender
cannulas- I
would even pay cash out of pocket to buy them by themselves (insurance
so far
has paid for supplies 100%- but I still waste too much tubing even with
getting the 5/10 boxes!- and I just don't like to waste it!)

Add my name to the list!!

Cheryl
aka Mouse
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Re: [IP] Buying cannulas separately



     To: email @ redacted
     Subject: Re: [IP] Buying cannulas separately
     From: email @ redacted
     Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:36:50 EST
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



<So, IP members, if you'd like to be able to buy the cannulas
separately,
say so here. Let's see if a pump rep answers.>
    I too would like to see them sold separately. My HMO will only pay
for so much. I would like to have a few extras around for those
emergency site
changes. I hate to get as low on supplies as my HMO requires. I would
gladly  purchase (at my own expense) extras for peace of mind!
    Kathy
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Re: [IP] Buying cannulas separately



     To: email @ redacted
     Subject: Re: [IP] Buying cannulas separately
     From: email @ redacted
     Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 10:36:50 EST
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



<So, IP members, if you'd like to be able to buy the cannulas
separately,
say so here. Let's see if a pump rep answers.>
    I too would like to see them sold separately. My HMO will only pay
for so
much. I would like to have a few extras around for those emergency site
changes. I hate to get as low on supplies as my HMO requires. I would
gladly
purchase (at my own expense) extras for peace of mind!
    Kathy
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RE: [IP] Buying cannulas separately



     To: <email @ redacted>
     Subject: RE: [IP] Buying cannulas separately
     From: "Bethany T. Benton" <email @ redacted>
     Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 08:24:53 -0600
     Importance: Normal
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



<< I am amazed at how expensive the supplies are. They say they're
expensive to manufacture. But I suspect its cuz there is no competition
and
they can charge us what they like. I'd like to be able to buy the
cannula
ends by themselves for the times when the site comes loose. But they
don't
sell them separately. >>

I ran into something last night and am wondering if anyone else has had
this
problem.  I have been on the pump for almost a month.  I was told when I
was
1/2 way through supplies to order more.  I am very insulin resistant so
I
change my site every day.  Therefore a 3 month supply would last a month
and
a 1/2.  I called to order supplies and was told m insurance may not
cover
them because they just sent me supplies in February.  That's great I
thought - what the heck am I supposed to do in the mean time.  Not use
supplies? reuse supplies? Any suggestions???????

I'll try anything once.

Bethany
IDDM 15 yrs
Pumping Almost 1 month


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     Follow-Ups:
          Re: [IP] Buying cannulas separately
               From: "Natalie A. Sera" <email @ redacted>
          RE: [IP] Buying cannulas separately
               From: "Michael" <email @ redacted>

     References:
          [IP] Buying cannulas separately
               From: Andrew Aronoff <email @ redacted>



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[IP] Buying cannulas separately



     To: Insulin-Pumpers <email @ redacted>
     Subject: [IP] Buying cannulas separately
     From: Andrew Aronoff <email @ redacted>
     Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:37:18 +0200
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



<< I am amazed at how expensive the supplies are. They say they're
expensive to manufacture. But I suspect its cuz there is no competition
and
they can charge us what they like. I'd like to be able to buy the
cannula
ends by themselves for the times when the site comes loose. But they
don't
sell them separately. >>

I agree with everything you said. I would also like to buy JUST the
cannulas so I can change the site without changing the reservoir or the
rest of the tubing. It's a waste to change the cannula and throw out the

bulk of the tubing.

Obviously, the pump manufacturers make most of their money on the
infusion
sets and other supplies. Still, nothing's preventing them from making a
nice profit on a package of 10 or 20 cannulas, but selling them at a
price
that would justify their purchase.

If an infusion set costs $8-10 (they cost only pennies to make--the high

price is needed to recoup investment, to pay the bills, to assure future

investment, and for profit), figure the cannula part alone should cost
about $6. So if they sell 10 cannulas for $60, I'll buy 'em.

< MM told me that they will not sell them separately until there is A
GREAT
ENOUGH DEMAND! >

Well then, let's ask together and prove them wrong about the lack of
demand.

The IP list members can help make it happen. All we have to do is
support
this publicly. The pump reps that receive this newsletter will get the
message. If not, then there are other steps we could take, but one step
at
a time.

< So, everyone who has this need, please make noise to MM and create a
demand so many of us can save a significant amount of money. I don't
think
we have to worry about MM going broke over selling a few less packages
of
tubing. >

They're entitled to a healthy profit, but we're entitled to be able to
buy
what we need.

So, IP members, if you'd like to be able to buy the cannulas separately,

say so here. Let's see if a pump rep answers. If not and if there's
enough
interest by the members, another step would be proposed.

regards, Andy

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          RE: [IP] Buying cannulas separately
               From: "Bethany T. Benton" <email @ redacted>



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[IP] High cost of supplies


[IP] Separate Package



     To: "'email @ redacted'" <email @ redacted>
     Subject: [IP] Separate Package
     From: "Bonnie Richardson" <email @ redacted>
     Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 12:30:45 -0800
     Reply-To: email @ redacted




  Ted said: Snipped>:
OK, but Disetronics and Chronimed also need to be pushed for this to
happ=
en.  Maersk, the company that makes them in Denmark won't make a
separate package
JUST for MiniMed, I'm sure. So if you're going to push 1 =middle man
supplier you're going to have to push all of them, or nothing will
change. That's how OEM suppliers work. <Snipped.
 =
But you see, that is the catch.....CANALAS ARE ALREADY SEPARATELY
PACKAGED!
They come in their own package whenever you buy the 10/5 combo pack!  So

there is no extra cost involved to sell them separately.   OK, they
might
want to change the words on the combo box to say contains 10 canalas
only....but that is not a significant cost.

>From what I can see, all it will take is more of us asking!

And while we are at it....why can't we recycle the miles of tubing and
plastic resorviors now going into landfills, increasing our dependence
on
foreign oil, etc...???..
Bonnie Richardson
Greenpeace member since 1978


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          Re: [IP] Separate Package
               From: Ginny Kloth <email @ redacted>



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Re: [[IP] Separate Package]



     To: email @ redacted
     Subject: Re: [[IP] Separate Package]
     From: Ted Quick <email @ redacted>
     Date: 28 Mar 00 17:12:11 EST
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



"Bonnie Richardson" <email @ redacted> wrote:
>
> But you see, that is the catch.....CANALAS ARE ALREADY SEPARATELY
PACKAGED!
> They come in their own package whenever you buy the 10/5 combo pack!
So
> there is no extra cost involved to sell them separately.   OK, they
might
> want to change the words on the combo box to say contains 10 canalas
> only....but that is not a significant cost.

You might be surprised what businesses think is a significant cost. Not
only
would they need to print new boxes and labels, but would also need to
handle 3
kinds of package rather than 2. It does build up, and also affects the
dealer's space requirements.

Also, from a legal standpoint they may fear that a customer will lose
track
and expect he has more tube sets than he does, wear out or cut his last
1 and
have no units in reserve. The current packages make it easier to be
sure.

> From what I can see, all it will take is more of us asking!

You may be right.

> And while we are at it....why can't we recycle the miles of tubing and

> plastic resorviors now going into landfills, increasing our dependence
on
> foreign oil, etc

Simplest reason possible, it can't be done reasonably. The tubing is
made of 2
very different materials, the flexble outer layer that takes the abuse,
and a
totally different material co-extruded as a lining. They are rather
firmly
attached (except where we've bent them too much and can see a silvery
patch)
and can't be separated without slitting the tube end to end and
laboriously
peeling them apart. Even that probably wouldn't work.

Anyway, if they just ground them up in recycling without separating them
first
you would have a non-usable mixed plastic that can't be made into
anything
else. Just can't be done, at least in any economically feasible way (if
at
all.)

Ted Quick
email @ redacted
Plastic molding Project Engineer

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Re: [[IP] Buying cannulas separately]



     To: email @ redacted
     Subject: Re: [[IP] Buying cannulas separately]
     From: Ted Quick <email @ redacted>
     Date: 28 Mar 00 07:26:03 EST
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



Andrew Aronoff <email @ redacted> wrote:
> I agree with everything you said. I would also like to buy JUST the
> cannulas so I can change the site without changing the reservoir or
the
> rest of the tubing. It's a waste to change the cannula and throw out
the
> bulk of the tubing.
>
> Obviously, the pump manufacturers make most of their money on the
infusion
> sets and other supplies.

Actually the pump manufactures do NOT make the Silhouettes, Tenders,
or Comforts. They are all made in Denmark by a different company,
purchased
from them OEM by MiniMed, Disetronics, or Chronimed and sold.

Still, nothing's preventing them from making a
> nice profit on a package of 10 or 20 cannulas, but selling them at a
price
> that would justify their purchase.

The companies we buy them from are not directly in control of how they
are packaged.

> If an infusion set costs $8-10 (they cost only pennies to make--the
high
> price is needed to recoup investment, to pay the bills, to assure
future
> investment, and for profit), figure the cannula part alone should cost

> about $6. So if they sell 10 cannulas for $60, I'll buy 'em.
>
> < MM told me that they will not sell them separately until there is A
GREAT

> ENOUGH DEMAND! >

OK, but Disetronics and Chronimed also need to be pushed for this to
happen.
Maersk, the company that makes them in Denmark won't make a separate
package
JUST for MiniMed, I'm sure. So if you're going to push 1
middle man supplier you're going to have to push all of them, or nothing
will
change. That's how OEM suppliers work.

Ted Quick
email @ redacted

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Re: [IP] RE: Buying cannulas separately



     To: <email @ redacted>
     Subject: Re: [IP] RE: Buying cannulas separately
     From: "Tom & Nancy Carlson" <email @ redacted>
     Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:35:41 -0600
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



As a buyer for an Animal Pharmaceutical company.  I never wanted to buy
something that I would not use.  You sometimes have to battle and find
another source, which is hard in this case.  Vendors usually come threw
for
there customers.  We need to pound on them, the people we buy supplies
from, not the manufacturer of the supplies.  If we make it hard for our
vendors they will make hard on there vendors.

Please add my name to the list of wanting them sold separate.  Each of
us
should also go to the sight of your pump manufacture and send the
suggestion to them.  If they get two thousand plus request, lets say
every month I bet we would get some notice.

Tom Carlson, MiniMed 508 since December 1999

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To: "Insulin-Pumpers" <email @ redacted>
     Subject: [IP] RE: Buying cannulas separately
     From: "Betsy Krussel" <email @ redacted>
     Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 11:56:22 -0000
     Importance: Normal
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



Yes, I would like to buy them separately.  Asked for one box of the 5/10

sets to be included in my last order.  They sent me 5 boxes of the sets.

And, of course, at the same time my sites started lasting longer.  Guess
I
will have quite a supply of one or the other at the end of this
shipment.
Wonder which it will be.  Buying them separately would make this "living
in
the land of the unknown" unnecessary.

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[IP] Re: separate cannulas



     To: email @ redacted
     Subject: [IP] Re: separate cannulas
     From: email @ redacted
     Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 12:58:19 EST
     Reply-To: email @ redacted



Just adding my opinion that it would be great to buy separate cannulas.
I
use sils and invariably feel guilty when I need to change the cannula if
the
3 days aren't up.  I am incredibly lucky that our insurance (through
Sharp
Rees-Stealy in San Diego) pays for everything -- pump and supplies, and
just
a small copay for insulin -- but I don't want to push my luck by asking
for
too much over the 'normal use.'
Linda G
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[IP] RE: Buying cannulas separately





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for HELP or to subscribe/unsubscribe, contact: HELP@insulin-pumpers.org
send a DONATION http://www.Insulin-Pumpers.org/donate.shtml