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[IP] Re: Who's the expert? (Was MM vs Disetronic)

> On 20 Jan 00, at 20:01, Jack Granowski wrote:
> > I am continually amazed at the disinformation that is being put forward on D's, by
> > presumably MM users.  I called the D info number (800-280-7801) who seemed to agree
> > that MM must be intentionally giving out false information on D's, through there
> > rep's.
> It's about even on misinformation...  the D reps that I've met really harp on
> the mistaken idea that water kills MM pumps.

Again, I feel that there is a difference.  The MM's are not waterproof and should not be
dunked with impunity.  Some that have immersed them seem a little surprised that there was
not problem.  There is a difference between water resistant and water proof.  It's very true
that D's ar MORE waterproof than MM's.  The D reps should be saying MM's MAY fry with a
dunking, not WILL fry.  That is not even.

> > Normally when D users post, they are telling what they like about their pump, or
> > answering inaccuracies of the D.  Often, when MMer's post, it is to put down the D and
> > to say 'let's see your pump do that'.  If someone would post proof for any of the
> > above claims, I would guess that D would be interested in seeing something written
> > down that could be responded to.
> Hmmm... If MM user says they like the square wave function they are apt to
> get flamed by a D user saying "nya nya nya nya I can jump in the swimming
> pool"  (been on the receiving end of some of those)...

I have seen numerous posts from D users, including me, that do indeed say that they would
like to have the square wave.

> So I guess if a MM
> user posts something other that problem with their pump it is a "put down"
> on the D, especially if it's something that the D cannot do...  But if a D user
> posts that all MM pumps are water soluble junk that's "telling what she
> likes about her pump" and not a negative post?

I have never seen anyone say 'water soluble junk' or an approximation.  I have seen many say
that they wanted water PROOF, not RESISTANT.  When someone says they got the D because of 2
pumps or waterproof or that they got MM because of square wave, or color, or American, etc.
I don't consider it bad.  When they say they got MM because the D must have 2 pumps because
of the FDA and unreliability or they have to be sent to Europe, it does bother me because
those are not true.

> > I suggested to Disetronic that they should be members of this list (they thought it
> > was an MM outlet) which would be a plus for all, as the more participation the better.
> If they would respond to e-mail or phone calls they might have a chance to
> figure out what the list is...  Several of us e-mailed them about donations to
> the site and I know I never got an acnowledgment from "big D"...

I have since learned that there are D lurkers.  If MM is contributing I would think that D
should also, and should be assured that it would not be an MM house list.

> Reviewing
> my e-mail pile I noticed that many D users seem to have a chip on their
> shoulder where their pump is concerned.... Many MM users do to so it's
> really easy to get into a chip-flipping contest...

You must receive different posts than I do.  What I have noticed is that Der's are merely
reacting and MMer's are proactive (my opinion, which is probably biased).  When an absolute
lie is posted (see above, other posts) I think the D users do get a chip, because these are
really lies, not just inaccuracies.

> > I am not putting down the MM pump. My only statements on the pump were positive.  I am
> > putting down those who use only sales people as sources.
> But you made some pretty pointed accusations/insinuations there...

Please read my posts again.  The accusations were not of the pump, but of the sales reps, or
where the posters are getting their info.  Again, the pump is terrific, and if I didn't
already have a D it would be a fine machine.  I will gladly flush my D when there is a
better alternative, like a cure (g) or when MM has things that would make me switch.

> It's really easy to understand why people tend to get attached to their pumps
> and get into the "evangelist" style when talking about their choice of pump...

> That all said, both pumps are good products that are made to high standards
> of quality.  Both companies reps are guilty of "salesmanship" and tend to
> emphasize the negatives of the competition... but have you ever tried to get
> a Chevy salesman to say something good about a Mazda?

No, but I also rarely see them make an out right lie (at least of the competition) either.
When I sold Toyota's I never said, or was told to say, anything untruthful of the
completion.  With cars it's real easy to get true comparisons and specs.  A sales person is
supposed to accentuate the positive and minimize the negative of their own product and vice
versa for the competition.  They don't have to say anything good, just don't lie.

> And as users we
> tend to fall into patterns... I really don't care about the "waterproofness"
> or "hot spare" ability of the D pumps...  In my mind (which is where the
> decisions about pumping are made) there is a negative association with a
> supplier giving me a "spare"...

Please read the posts on spares again.  They are required in Europe, so D supplies them here
also.  When MM sells in Europe, they must also supply two, but do not do it here.  Are the
MM pumps sent to Europe less reliable?  That you have never had to send in your pump, and be
pump less, is terrific.  I have never had a breakdown either (6+ years) but like the other D
users, like the safety net, not that I'm likely to use it.

People should make their choice objectively.  Some will want to be sure they will not be
without the pump, that they can swim with it (and be sure) and others will need the square
wave or other positives of MM (I don't want to get too specific).  They should not make
their choice because of the various falsehoods posted on the D, or MM.

> D or MM?  It doesn't matter one bit...  what matters is that you are using
> one of them to improve your life by actually taking charge of your health
> and working to educate yourself and those around you...  Like I told a group
> a few years ago - "It doesn't matter which side of the church you sit on -
> just as long as you're here with us..."
> Rev. Randall Winchester
> WD4HVA (email @ redacted)

Absolutely.  No one should ever post what either sales person tells them, without
verification.  There are numerous places to determine the truth on either (both web sites,
ip site, this list, etc.).  There are also sites that offer comparisons, although many are
old and are comparing the V100 and 506's.  Which may be where the D reps got their info on
MM's, that was once accurate.

Sorry for dragging this on and stretching it out.  If I am asked why, I feel I must answer
Jack Granowski
email @ redacted
Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most times he will pick himself up and
carry on.
 - Winston Churchill

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