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[IP] Re: insulin-pumpers-digest V2 #760

I guess it was inevitible that this "discussion" came up, lets try and keep it civil.
Having said that, I'll ask a loaded but pertinent question. You are deeply troubled by
the use of animals in labratory testing and research but you don't have any problems 
with the use of baby humans? 

The use of animals for research is legal, ethical, and necessary. It probably does make
some people uncomfortable. Those same people would be very uncomfortable at a 
slaughterhouse or watching a factual nature video. I understand that. What I don't
understand is how people who are sensative to the plight of frankly useless
animals exhibit little or no compassion for baby humans. 

The fact that abortion is "legal" is irrelevant. If the murder of adult humans was also
"legal" would you have no problem using the bodies of murdered adults for research? 
Laws change very rapidly based on the whim of whoever happens to be making them, so 
it's not a strictly academic question. The Nazi's used Jews for "medical research" 
after they had devalued them as people much in the same way that we've devalued the
unborn. In their eyes that was also "legal". Do you also see no problem with that?

I'm sure this will unleash a fire-storm. But if it causes you to rethink acceptance of
something so barbaric as using unborn babies for research subjects, that's ok.

By the way, as to the use of miscarried babies in research - I think the problem
is that relying on miscarriages produces an insufficient supply for the research 
community. The babies are frequently badly damaged genetically, or parents are 
reluctant to release the baby's remains for research, or the baby isn't preserved 
in a usable state. 

> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:59:01 -0700
> From: Fran Baumgartner <email @ redacted>
> Subject: Re: [IP] Re: Fetal cells
> This is such a "hot" topic.  I debated whether to respond or not, but I just had
> to put my 2 cents in...
> > .  They were, and are most definately alive, and most definately
> > >human.  If you can do this research and further  with an animal, fine.
> I have such a hard time with this one.  I don't believe in animal testing.  When
> I say this to friends and family they say to me "and where do you think you'd be
> now if they hadn't done animal testing?"  I still don't have an answer.  I just
> think as humans we've invaded these poor defenseless animals and it really
> bothers me.  I did a research study where I got slice open on both sides of my
> ankles.  Friends and Family thought I was well stupid.  I said, well better to
> cut me than an animal.  Then they said "and who do you think they tested all this
> on before doing it to you?"  Again, no answer just very sad face.
> > There are other ways to get fetal cells than abortion...
> I see no problem using fetal cells from abortions.  Currently they're legal and
> people are still having them.  So why not use the fetal cells to help others?  I
> am not by any means advocating and / or encouraging abortion, but for now it is
> happening.
> > just like people
> > donate organs, why can't a fetus that has miscarried have cells donated to
> > help others?
> Very true.
> Fran
Insulin-Pumpers website http://www.insulin-pumpers.org/