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Re: [IP] Medicare, pumps and costs



A pumper in Scotland just informed me that the NHS there does consider
so-called new pumps mere updates of existing devices. Not that the NHS is a
special authority or anything, but they do authorize and partially pay for
a whole lot of pumps.

On Thursday, December 12, 2013, Liliana Wells wrote:

> Forget ethics.  They (pumps manufacturers, subcontractors, pharmaceutical
> companies) know that our lives depend of the pump and insulin.  If you want
> to live, you will pay.  They may sugar-coat this truth; but that's reality.
>  It's not just the pump that is so expensive, but other life sustaining
> drugs and devices.  Call me cynical; but there it is.
>
> Richard - they recovered their original R & D, marketing and what not years
> ago.  The "new" pumps are not really new.  They are just
> tweeked a bit.
>
> Liliana
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 12:33 AM, SomeoneSomewhere <email @ redacted>
> wrote:
>
> > Don't go and get all rational on me! No seriously, I don't buy it. The
> > initial costs have been offset by corporate welfare, healthcare grants,
> etc
> > and were by far paid for by the earlier models in research and
> development
> > dollars.
> >
> > Take minimed for example. Each "model" has had only minor upgrades to
> it's
> > design, technologically speaking. In fact, many of those upgrades could
> > have been made to software alone. In most cases, we are talking logarithm
> > not electronic changes except for the 502 to 506 according to Medtronics
> > own website. It doesn't say but I would venture to guess the 511 also
> came
> > with some electronic changes. It hasn't hardly cost the company anything
> > for each subsequent model. I bet if you lay those printed circuit board
> > side by side they are practically identical. They only major difference
> (in
> > a manufacturing sense) is the outside case. What it costs in retooling a
> > blow mold for thermoplastics is less than a tenth of percent of total
> > budget. I know people in plastics and blow molds are pretty cheap. The
> > biggest expense in retooling for a new model would be for 3D design and
> > testing for reliability etc of new infusion sets. But then again the
> > company is making back their money in groves by selling new sets to
> people
> > at again a huge mark up every month.
> >
> > Do I expect that the mark up should be the same as that for Apple
> > products. No. You are right there should be a much much higher standard
> of
> > reliability etc. The question is how much profit should people be making
> > off of other people's health problems? My answer, biomedical engineer's
> > should make a nice standard of living, more so than your average guy. But
> > not some know-nothing/do-little CEO who makes millions in bonus's a year.
> > Just take a look at what current Medtronic's CEO, Omar Ishrak, made in
> > 2012.
> > http://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2012/06/28/
> > ceo-pay-medtronic-ishrak-hawkins.html
> > Take a look at what they paid in severance to the previous CEO and what
> > the other leaders in the company made. Their stockholder's aren't making
> > out too bad either.
> > http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=MDT+Interactive#
> > symbol=mdt;range=5y;compare=;indicator=volume;charttype=
> > area;crosshair=on;ohlcvalues=0;logscale=off;source=undefined;
> > (Dang, I should've bought their stock! Maybe I could afford a pump then.)
> >
> > Now ask yourself, is that ethical when your a medical device company and
> > people are in desperate health without insurance cant afford your
> product?
> > Does it justify the price or the profit of the company when insurance
> pays
> > for it? If it does, does that mean people who can afford insurance, their
> > live's are more valuable than others?
> >
> > Not asking for an argument, just hoping you and others will think about
> > the ethics of it all. Maybe you will agree with me. ;) If not, that's ok
> > too. Above all, I really hope that people start to demand that health
> care
> > companies can no longer charge these kinds of fees for things, whatever
> > their views are.
> >
> > Louree
> >
> >
> > On 12/11/2013 9:33 PM, Richard Price wrote:
> >
> >>   True, pumps probably cost much less, like if they are made in China
> for
> >>
> > > example. However there is a huge basic cost that must be rectified in
> > order
> > to
> >
> >> make pumps initially available. That cost is what it costs to design and
> >> engineer them to meet acceptable standards. Every pump sold includes a
> >>
> > > Portion of the initial cost which is extra high because of the higher
> > standards
> >
> >> that must be met for medical use.
> >> Richard
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Dec 11, 2013, at 7:10 PM, SomeoneSomewhere <email @ redacted> wrote:
> >>
> >>  > > I didn't want to hijack the other thread so I changed the title
> > some. I
> > hope
> >
> >> that is ok.
> >>
> > > > This may offend some. It is not my intention to do so. I just nee
.
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